【历史】在古希腊人出现之前，希腊是否曾经有过一个古老的民族居住？

【来源龙腾网】

评论原创翻译：

Ioannis Kokkinidis

Per the ancient Greek authors Greece was inhabited by Pelasgians. Nowadays it is more thought that Greek-speakers immigrated to Greece in the Bronze Age and fused with the prehellenic population to form the Greek nation. The Pelasgians and the rest of the tribes there spoke a series of languages that was not Indoeuropean, not Semitic, not belonging to known language group as is for the most part undeciphered.

根据古希腊作家的说法，希腊的居民是佩拉斯吉人。如今，人们普遍认为希腊语系的居民在青铜时代移民到希腊，并与前希腊人群融合，形成了希腊民族。佩拉斯吉人和那里的其他部落讲了一系列不属于印欧语系、不属于闪米特语系，也不属于已知语言群体的语言，这些语言大部分仍未被破译。

In the 1990s a theory was proposed that has been accepted that Minoan, Eteocypriot, Pelasgian as attested in the Lemnian steles, Etruscan (per Herodotus they did immigrated to Italy from Asia Minor) and several other minor languages belong to a putative Aegean language group. Note: even in the case of Etruscan which is best attested and can be read, full decipherement is proving problematic.

20世纪90年代，人们提出了一种理论，认为米诺斯语、埃特塞浦路斯语、佩拉斯语（在利姆尼亚石碑上得到了证实）、伊特鲁里亚语（根据希罗多德的说法，他们确实是从小亚细亚半岛移民到意大利的）和其他几种小语种属于一个假定的爱琴海语系。注意：即使在伊特鲁里亚人的情况下，这是最好的证明，可以阅读，完全破译证明是有问题的。

Culturally women had a more powerful position than in historical Greek culture, though to call any of the prehellenic culture a gynaecocracy is nowadays considered a bit of a stretch. Some of the prehellenic cultures survived in the first millenium BC, the Eteocretans and Eteocypriots, the Pelasgians of Mt Athos and Lemnos, but while there are inscxtions and some outside descxtions, we do not really have any text to tell their tale from their POV. Archaeological digs do not show something fundamentally different from their Greek neighbors.

在文化上，女性的地位比历史上的希腊文化更强大，尽管将任何前希腊文化称为妇科文化在今天被认为有点牵强。一些前希腊文化在公元前一千年幸存了下来，如埃特奥克里特人和埃特塞普里特人，阿陀斯山和利姆诺斯山的佩拉斯吉人，但是尽管有铭文和一些外部描述，，我们实际上没有任何文本可以从他们的角度讲述他们的故事。考古发掘并没有显示出他们与希腊邻居有什么本质上的不同。

Bob DeWitt

There is no generally accepted scientific evidence that the ancient Greeks originated in Troy, however the primary group of people that lived in what later became known as Greece were the Mycenaeans who mostly occupied the Peloponnesus, although there were settlements on the mainland as well.

目前没有广泛接受的科学证据表明古希腊人起源于特洛伊，然而，生活在后来被称为希腊的地方的主要人群是迈锡尼人，他们主要居住在伯罗奔尼撒半岛，尽管在大陆上也有定居点。

Arthur John

With all the rather well written responses from many rather keen students of early Greece, is there one of you whom might say a few words about the Albanian's ancestors.

许多热衷于早期希腊研究的学者都给出了相当出色的回答，你们当中有谁能谈谈阿尔巴尼亚人的祖先吗？

Peter Herz

The ancient Greeks spoke of the Pelasgians being there before them, and there seems to be a non-Indo-European substrate in ancient Greek dealing with things that are strictly Mediterranean and/or dealing with state organization.

古希腊人提到佩拉斯吉人在他们之前就已经存在，并且在古希腊语中似乎存在一个非印欧语系的底层语言，这与一些严格属于地中海文化的事物和/或与国家组织有关。

Chris Barriere

Yes, the Greeks lived in Greece for thousands of years before interacting with boat builders. Evidence in some remote areas indicates a cultural continuity stretching back to the late Pleistocene. Nomadic Hunter gatherers began to settle down and practice rudimentary agriculture as early as 10,000 BC. The mainland of Greece has an equal amount of ancient sites, megaliths, and cave men bodies as any other place. The Real Question is who built some of the cities in Greece, because some are very, very old; much older than Ancient Greece or Persia.

是的，希腊人在与造船者接触之前，已经在希腊生活了数千年。一些偏远地区的证据表明，文化的连续性可以追溯到晚更新世。早在公元前10,000年，游牧狩猎采集者就开始定居并进行初步的农业活动。希腊大陆上拥有与其他地方一样多的古代遗址、巨石和穴居遗骸。真正的问题是谁建造了希腊的一些城市，因为有些城市非常非常古老；比古希腊或波斯古老得多。

Samuel Lee

Yes. At least some of them were called Pelasgians, & that name appears in Greek traditions of the mythical & heroic period. Certain Greek place names & other words, for example those ending in “-nth-” (like Korinthos (Corinth), Tiryns (genitive Tirynthos), & akanthos), are thought to have been derived from the language of the pre-Hellenic population. Also the original inhabitants of Crete (today called the Minoans, from the name of the legendary King Minos, who ruled in the Cretan city of Knossos, one of the major centers of Minoan culture) spoke a non-Greek language, written in the Linear A scxt, which has not yet been deciphered (although Linear B, which was derived from Linear A, has been deciphered, which is how we know that the Mycenaeans spoke an early form of Greek). The Minoan language may have been semitic, since the people known to the ancient Greeks as the Eteocretans spoke a semitic language.

是的，至少有一些人被称为佩拉斯吉人，这个名字出现在希腊神话和英雄时代的传统中。一些希腊地名和其他词汇，例如以“-nth-”结尾的词（如科林斯（Korinthos）、提林斯（Tiryns，属格为Tirynthos）和阿坎索斯（akanthos）），被认为源自前希腊人群体的语言。此外，克里特岛的原住民（今天被称为米诺斯人，以传说中的米诺斯国王的名字命名，他统治着克里特岛城市克诺索斯，克诺索斯是米诺斯文化的主要中心之一）讲的是一种非希腊语言，用线性文字 A 书写，这种文字尚未被破译（尽管从线性文字 A 衍生而来的线性文字 B 已被破译，这就是我们知道迈锡尼人讲的是希腊语的早期形式）。米诺斯语可能属于闪米特语，因为古希腊人所称的伊特奥克里特人讲的是一种闪米特语。

原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

April Miller

The first inhabitants of Greece were the prehistoric peoples who settled in the region during the Neolithic period (circa 7000–3200 BCE). These were diverse cultures with varying levels of technological advancement, such as the Cycladic, Minoan, and Mycenaean civilizations.

希腊的第一批居民是史前民族，他们在新石器时代（公元前7000年左右至公元前3200年）定居于该地区。这些文化多样，具有不同水平的技术进步，包括如基克拉迪文明、米诺斯文明和迈锡尼文明。

The Greeks, as we commonly recognize them, emerged during the Bronze Age. The earliest recognized Greek civilization is the Minoan civilization, which flourished on the island of Crete around 2000 BCE. The Mycenaeans, another early Greek civilization, emerged on the mainland around 1600 BCE. These were the precursors to what we consider classical Greek culture, which emerged around the 8th century BCE with the development of city-states like Athens and Sparta.

我们通常所认知的希腊人是在青铜时代出现的。最早被认知的希腊文明是米诺斯文明，该文明于公元前 2000 年左右在克里特岛上蓬勃发展。另一个早期希腊文明是迈锡尼文明，约公元前1600年在希腊大陆上兴起。这些文明是我们所认为的古典希腊文化的前身，古典希腊文化大约在公元前8世纪随着雅典和斯巴达等城邦的发展而形成。

原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处

George Alparos

You’re quite confused there.

How would you call the people inhabiting Greece before the supposedly “Greeks” came to inhabit it? Your question doesn't make any sense.

Clearly what you ask rests on some nonsense theories about some non-existent Indoeuropean people that spoke some non-existent Indoeuropean language and supposedly some of these ghost people inhabited Greece kicking out its former habitats.

你显然有些混淆。

你会如何称呼那些在所谓“希腊人”来到之前居住在希腊的人？你的问题没有任何意义。

显然，你的问题建立在一些关于不存在的印度-欧洲人及其所说的不存在的印度-欧洲语言的荒谬理论之上，且这些所谓的幽灵人居住在希腊，驱逐了当地的居民。

However, truth is that there hasn't been single evidence of their existence whatsoever, so this IE theory collapsed in its own stupidity. To date, some insist on writing about the ghost Indoeuropeans in Wikipedia and the like only to embarrass themselves.

The fact is that not a single ancient author doubted the indigenity of the Greek people and there hasn't been a single reference of any other people come settling in Greece at any time in ancient history.

然而，事实是，至今没有任何证据证明他们的存在，因此这个印度-欧洲人理论在其愚蠢中崩溃了。至今仍有人坚持在维基百科等地方写关于这些幽灵印度-欧洲人的内容，真是让人感到羞愧。

事实上，没有任何古代作者质疑希腊民族的本土性，也没有任何文献提到在古代历史中有其他民族在希腊定居的情况。

Mike White

I think it is reasonable to consider all people who lived in Greece peaceably, and were accepted, for at least a couple of generations, as being Greeks. Just as modern people who may have migrated there consider themselves rightly as Greeks.

我认为，考虑到所有在希腊和平生活并被接受了几代人的人，认为他们是希腊人是合理的。就像现代人可能迁移到那里，理所当然地认为自己是希腊人一样。

When under Frisian domination, those Frisians who lived in Greece likely thought of themselves as Greeks. The Arcadians were Greeks, as were the Dorians after being there a while. The Phoenicians who founded Thebes were in time Greeks, as were the Cretans and Phrygians, those of the Cyclades, and Ionia.

在弗里斯兰人统治期间，那些生活在希腊的弗里西亚人可能也认为自己是希腊人。阿卡迪亚人是希腊人，多利安人在希腊居住了一段时间后也成了希腊人。创立底比斯的腓尼基人最终也是希腊人，克里特人、弗里吉亚人、基克拉泽斯群岛的人和伊奥尼亚人也是如此。

The same can be said for the Cyclopes and Titans who built the megalithic structures of Greece.

When I read Homer with respect and admiration, I feel myself a little bit Greek. As we all should, for the Greeks stood sentry and protected the eastern gateway of Europe for millennias. They hold a tradition of being hospitable warriors and noble philosophers.

对于建造希腊巨石结构的独眼巨人和泰坦们，也可以这样说。

当我怀着尊重和钦佩阅读荷马时，我感觉自己也有一点希腊人的身份。我们所有人都应该如此，因为希腊人守卫并保护了欧洲的东部门户长达数千年。他们有着热情好客的战士和高尚的哲学家的传统。