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中国一线城市跟美国相比,谁更发达?

城市,是一个国家发展的基石,大城市,则是国家繁荣的标志。看一个国家的发达程度,大城市的水平,是一项重要的指标。

最近,在某论坛有外国网友评价全球各国大城市中,中国的深圳、上海、北京、广州、成都等都获得比较好的评价,有些外国网友甚至认为中国的大城市已经超过美国或者即将超过美国。

1、Jonathan Buttall

I have been to Beijing, Xi’an and Shanghai. I grew up in the greater New York area.

我去过北京、西安和上海,我在大纽约区长大。

I used to
think NYC was the human center of the world and the ultimate city. When
I went to Shanghai and Beijing, I realized that the Chinese cities look
like they’re a century in the future, and dwarf those in the US.

我曾经认为,纽约是人类世界的中心和终极城市。但是,当我去了上海和北京的时候,我才意识到,中国城市看起来像是未来世纪,让美国城市相形见绌。

The
Freedom Tower in New York City (I will not call it the World Trade
Center because I respect those who died on 9/11/01) would be nothing if
put in the Shanghai skyline.

纽约市的自由塔(我不将其称之为世贸中心,因为我尊重那些在2001年9月11日去世的人)如果和上海的天际线放在一起,它啥也不是。

500

Have any of you noticed that most of the buildings in US Cities all look alike?

你们有没有注意到美国城市的大部分建筑都很相似?

As for
the exaggeration of so called “ghost cities”, those are simply large
empty developments at the edge of hugely populated cities in China. You
can see ghost neighborhoods in Newark and Detroit where the race riots
of the 60s took place.

至于所谓“鬼城”的夸张说法,这些只是中国人口众多的城市往周边空旷地域的延伸而已,你也可以在美国的纽瓦克和底特律看到幽灵社区,那里60年代发生过种族骚乱。

2、John Garrison

Yes in
the sense that all of the infrastructure is pretty new(built in the last
30 years), and most of the public transportation and buildings are
super modern. By comparison most American cities have many 50+ year old
buildings, and public transportation isn’t that great. If you look at
the pictures it appears that China is much more modern with it’s cities,
and in some cases it is.

是的,从某种意义上来说,所有的基础设施都是相当新的(在过去的30年里建成的),而且大多数公共交通和建筑都非常现代化。相比之下,大多数美国城市还有许多50多年历史的建筑,公共交通也不是很好。如果你看这些照片,你会发现中国的城市更加现代化,在某些情况下确实如此。

500

▲ 天津

500

▲ 芝加哥

On the outside both cities look pretty nice, but the Chinese skyscrapers are clearly newer and more modern.

从外观上看,两座城市都很漂亮,但中国的摩天大楼显然更新、更现代。

Chinese cities look very modern on the outside, but if you look at what’s keeping them going they aren’t nearly as developed.

中国的城市在外表上看起来非常现代化,但如果你看看是什么让它们发展起来的,就会发现它们远没有那么发达。

I
traveled to Beijing in 2014 and was staying on the outskirts of the
city. At the apartment block I was in power surges occurred regularly
and it wasn’t uncommon for the lights to go out every day for a few
minutes without reason….this was 2014 and we were in one of the largest
cities in the world, and they were still having continuous power
problems. Now I’ve heard they’ve since fixed this issue in that area but
that usually doesn’t happen in US cities. In many smaller Chinese
cities this can still be a problem, but they are slowly working on
fixing it.

2014年我去了北京,当时我住在郊区。在我住的公寓楼里,经常会有电压故障,每天停电几分钟是很正常的……那是2014年,我们在世界上最大的城市之一,他们仍然有持续的供电问题。现在我听说他们已经解决了这个问题,但这通常不会发生在美国的城市。在中国的许多小城市,这仍然是个问题,但他们正在慢慢地解决这个问题。

Of course
there are more things that American cities do better, and there are
more things that Chinese cities do better. Both countries have great
cities, and both have their strengths and weaknesses, these are a few of
them.

当然了,美国城市做得好的方面很多,中国城市做得好的方面也很多。两国都有大城市,都有优缺点,这只是其中的一些而已。

3.Quang Nguyen

I have
been in Hangzhou, Guangzhou and Dallas. Dallas is one of the top 10
biggest city of US but it is merely passed the population of Hangzhou
which is tier 2 city of China. Guangzhou is the tier 1 city but it is
getting behind other tier 1 cities of China which means you would see
Shanghai or Peiking much more advanced than Guangzhou.

我去过杭州、广州和达拉斯,达拉斯是美国十大城市之一,但它可能仅仅只有人口超过了杭州这个中国二线城市。广州是中国的一线城市,但它比中国其他的一线城市要差一些,这意味着,你会看到上海或北京比广州先进得多。

Comparing
to Dallas, Hangzhou is very clean and neat. It is not simple clean. It
is mind blowing clean. And for the population of 9 million people, you
see much less car on the street than Dallas. The air is the same, but
Hangzhou has many more trees than Dallas.

与达拉斯相比,杭州非常地干净和整洁,这不是简单的干净,而是真的太干净了。相对于杭州的900万人口来说,你在街上看到的汽车要比达拉斯少得多,空气差不多,但是杭州的树比达拉斯的多。

500

The point
is the sheer different between a tier 2 city of China and top 10
biggest cities of US, you will not able to comprehend the difference
between the top cities of China with US.

关键是,中国的二级城市和美国的十大城市都有着天壤之别,你将无法理解中国顶尖城市与美国城市之间的差别。

urban planning of China has already surpassed US a decade….

中国的城市规划已经超过美国十年了…

4.Davide Mirabella

The
heyday of American cities has been about one hundred years ago, due to
high population growth and influx of immigrations.It was also the time
when the first skyscrapers started to appear in cities in the Eastern
U.S.

美国城市的全盛时期大约是在100年前,因为人口的高速增长和移民的涌入,这也是第一批摩天大楼开始出现在美国东部城市的时间。

A second
blooming was after World War 2, when large infrastructure projects were
built in the US, in particular highways and airports. Also, many
skyscrapers in the so-called Internationalist style started to appear in
skylines of US cities.

第二次繁荣发生在第二次世界大战之后,当时美国修建了很多大型基础设施项目,特别是很多的高速公路和机场,此外,很多摩天大楼开始出现在美国城市的天际线上。

500

The
development of Chinese cities such as Shenzhen, Beijing and Shanghai,
however, is much more recent. Far-reaching urban renewals were tackled
in the early 2000s, so it is only natural that stuff looks cleaner, more
organized and more modern. The architecture alone is contemporary,
while lots of skyscrapers in US cities look a bit dated because many of
them were build 40 to 50 years ago.

但是,深圳、北京和上海等中国城市的发展则是最近才开始的,在21世纪初,长期的城市规划完成,所以中国的城市看起来更干净、更有规划、更加现代化,这是很正常的,单就建筑本身而言,中国是现代化的,而美国城市中的许多摩天大楼看起来有点过时,因为其中许多都是40到50年前建造的。

You could
argue that American cities have been collecting a bit of dust, or
patina for that matter. Stuff has aged, so you sometimes see and feel
it. That is not an inherently bad thing, cities always go through this
process - infrastrucutre ages and stops meeting demand and particularly
in relation to aesthetics cities can start to look a bit frumpy because
contemporary architecture looks much flashier.

你可能会说,美国的城市已经有点脏了,或者说生锈了,有些东西已经很老旧了,这是你能感觉到的事情,但这并不一定是一件坏事,城市总会经历这个过程——基础设施老化,无法满足需求,尤其是在外观方面,城市可能会开始看起来有点过时,因为当代建筑看起来更加潮流。

500

Personally,
I like some of the gritty areas of US cities. I don’t want everything
in a city to be spick and span. Cities are places where people live,
lots of them. It is only natural for cities to start to look a bit worn
down. It’s what life does to things. There is a certain beauty in decay.

就我个人而言,我挺喜欢美国城市的一些落后地区。我不希望城市里的一切都是干净整洁的。城市是很多人居住的地方,城市开始显得有些破旧是很自然的。这就是生活的意义。腐朽中也有某种美。

I am not
very well informed when it comes to municipal politics in the US - but I
am sure some of the lack of infrastrucutre is due to tax cuts and lack
of infrastructure spending, too. Also, let’s not glorify Chinese cities
too much. The cities you’ve mentioned in your question’s details are the
showcase cities of China. I’ve travelled to dozens of cities in China
and there’s plenty of places out there that are far from looking as
flashy as Shenzhen, Shanghai or Beijing.

谈到美国的市镇建设,我不是很了解——但我确信,基础设施匮乏的部分原因是减税和基础设施支出不足。同样,我们也不要过分美化中国城市。你在问题的中提到的城市是中国的样板城市。我去过中国几十个城市,还有很多地方远不如深圳、上海或北京那么光鲜。

5.Károly Molnár

I've also
been in both American and Chinese big cities and I agree with you,
Chinese cities look more modern, cleaner and better organized.

我也去过美国和中国的大城市,我同意你的看法,中国的城市看起来更现代、更干净、更有条理。

America
as we see today is an old country. New York still has the oldest and
shittiest subway system ever! Changes take time and most citizens don't
see them as problems because they've grew up in that.

我们今天看到的美国是一个古老的国家。纽约的地铁系统仍然是最古老和最烂的!当然,我也知道改变需要时间,大多数公民并不认为这是问题,因为他们就是在这样的环境中长大的。

500

Modern
China however is only 30–40 years old, its development is amazing in
such a short time! China wanted to develop so they did everything
according to their need of improving their life. Every system is new,
maybe even the first in the world because they still focus on
development. China can build a whole new city faster than we can
construct a new subway station in Hungary…

然而,现代中国只有30-40岁,它能在如此短的时间取得这样的发展是惊人的!中国想要发展,所以他们按照自己的需要来改善生活。每一个系统都是新的,甚至可能是世界上第一个,因为他们仍然关注发展。中国建设一个新城市的速度比我们在匈牙利建一个新地铁站的速度还快。

The other
reason is that Chinese people have similar values in life, they value
hard work, peace and they don't care what the others believe in. They
don't have such religious, social and criminal issues like American
cities have. Man, you can't pay me enough to enter Detroit while I can
walk midnight in any Chinese park alone without thinking of any danger.

另一个原因是中国人在生活中有相似的价值观,他们重视努力工作,和平,他们不关心别人相信什么。他们不像美国城市那样存在宗教、社会和犯罪问题。伙计们,我不能独自一个人去底特律,而我却可以在午夜独自在中国任何一个公园散步而不考虑任何危险。

500

Since
Chinese cities don't have these issues, their local governments can
focus on other things that are important for people like cleanness,
modern subways or high speed trains which have better services than most
world-class airline companies.

因为中国的城市没有这些问题,他们的地方政府可以专注于其他对人们来说更重要的事情,比如清洁、现代地铁或比大多数世界级的航空公司服务更好的高速列车上。

6.Joe Martins

Not only more developed, but these days more quickly developed.

不仅更发达,而且发展得更快。

Even in
“smaller” cities like Tai Cang City (pop ~1M), Suzhou, Jiangsu an hour
Northwest of Shanghai (pop 24+M, 3 times that of NYC) visitors will find
entire neighborhoods of 20+ story condo complexes going up in parallel.
That is to say, they’ll see 8, 10, 12+ adjacent skyscrapers being built
at the same time. No doubt you’ve seen this in your travels.

即使是在“小”城市,如太仓(人口100万)、江苏苏州(人口1072万,比纽约还多200多万),游客会发现整个街区到处都是20多层的公寓大楼。也就是说,他们将看到8、10、12座相邻的摩天大楼同时建成。毫无疑问,你在旅行中看到了这一点。

500

And the
Shanghai Metro is so well designed and organized it blows away anything
in the U.S. by a light year. Cost-wise it’s ridiculously cheap to get
around…many trips across a city 9 times larger by area than NYC cost
~$0.50 USD. [For comparison, it costs $2 per slow-ass bus ride in
Newport, RI to take a bus 1/2 mile into town…a town of 24k.]

上海地铁的设计和组织是如此之好,它比美国的任何东西都要快“一光年”。从成本上来说,这里的交通成本简直低得离谱……在一个面积比纽约大9倍的城市里旅行,很多次的成本都在0.5美元左右。(相比之下,在罗德岛新港坐1/2英里的公交车到一个只有24k人口的小镇要花2美元)

Rental
bicycles from at least 4 major companies available on virtually every
street corner, and easily rented and unlocked through phone apps. Chain
them up outside everywhere you go? Nah! Unlike in NYC nobody is going to
steal them.

在中国,至少有4家大公司租赁自行车,几乎在每个街角都可以使用,而且很容易通过手机应用租用和解锁。无论你走到哪里都能把他们锁在外面?不!不像在纽约,没有人会去偷它们。

500

I could go on and on and on.

我可以一直讲下去。

It’s on a
scale and at a depth my fellow Americans are not likely to see in the
U.S. any time soon. I like to say development speed in China today is
like the U.S. 60–70 years ago. Vast urban areas seemingly pop up out of
farmland in under a decade.

它的规模和深度是我的美国同胞们短期内不太可能在美国看到的。我想说,中国今天的发展速度就像60-70年前的美国。在不到十年的时间里,大片的城区似乎从农田里冒了出来。

[EDIT: I
should add that if China isn’t careful, it’ll follow the same arc as the
U.S. Vast unsustainable development with ongoing maintenance costs that
are many multiples the original development cost. Which is why the
infrastructure in the U.S. is in such disrepair. We built far more than
we could affordably sustain/maintain over the long term. 60–70+ years
ago nobody considered the long-term financial impact of large scale
development and sprawl. One can already see early signs of decay in
relatively new developments (5–20 yo) in China.]

编辑:我应该补充一点,如果中国不小心的话,它将步美国的后尘。巨大的不可持续的发展,持续的维护成本是原始开发成本的许多倍。]这就是为什么美国的基础设施年久失修的原因。我们建造的东西远远超出了我们长期维持/维护的能力。60-70多年前,没有人考虑过大规模开发和扩张的长期财务影响。在中国相对较新的发展(5-20岁)中,人们已经可以看到衰退的早期迹象。

结语:

不得不说,对于中国当下的发展,不少外国网友已经感受到了。随着中国一二线城市的迅速发展,未来的中国尤其是沿海地区一定会出现一个又一个大型发达城市,甚至还会出现堪比纽约、东京的超大型城市群。

但是,在这些繁华背后,我们应该注意发展的平衡性和可持续性,就像“Mulin Chang”网友所说:

“中国的大型城市的确很发达,很先进,给外来者留下了深刻的印象,但它们缺少了美国某些一线城市具备的功能性,特别是对特殊群体的关怀,城市应该是为所有人服务的,而不是为某些群体服务。”

总的来说,我们目前的确取得了不小的成就,但正如那句诗写的:“路漫漫其修远兮,吾将上下而求索”,未来的路还长着呢,加油干吧!

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风闻热评

因为奢侈品关税跟朋友杠起来了,求大佬帮助
左千户 :

槽点太多都不知道怎么说了。
1,中国没有奢侈品关税这个税种,奢侈品的关税率也不是很高,因为奢侈品跟普通消费品的差别在价格上,海关的关税是根据商品品类的定价的,而不是根据价格,比如路易斯威登的包,关税率就是6%,不管你的价格是多少。
2,中国关税的计税标准是进口成本,跟市场销售价格无关。也就是说某种产品,进口成本是100块钱,市场价格卖10000,关税是那100块的6%,就只有6块。这种定价方式在进口产品中是经常事,比如红酒,80%以上的红酒进口价格是1到3欧元之间,但市场销售价格在200-5000都有,所以对于进口商来说,关税的成本几乎是忽略不计的。所以用关税控制你认为的奢侈品其实没啥效果。
3,真正能起到奢侈品高关税作用的应该是消费税,这是独立于关税和增值税之外的一种进口税,一般用于酒类,化妆品等,但由于计税的依据还是进口成本,所以也起不了太大作用
4,关税的设定是一个非常复杂的决策过程,可能一个国家最强的经济人才每天996也想不明白的。如果简单的认为降低关税就能让老百姓达到最高的生活标准,我记得有两个政权这么干,一个是国民党,已经丢了江山,另一个是墨西哥,变成了贩毒国家。
5,你们最大的错误是压根不知道什么是奢侈品,路易斯威登和古奇的包说不上是什么奢侈品,真正的奢侈品是教育,健康,医疗,这在国外都是天价的,是真正的贵族产品。奥巴马在当选总统前三年才还清助学贷款,你比奥巴马早还完助学贷款,不是你比奥巴马优秀,只是因为你是中国人。

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